Nov. 2, 2003
Terry Dugan
Mayor of Dubuque
They elected Terry Duggan mayor.
Then the owner of a small real estate office, Duggan gained his entree to municipal service as a member of a committee monitoring city investments in the wake of the Iowa Trust Fund scandal.
In the 1993 mayoral election, Duggan unseated James Brady, a 12-year incumbent, in convincing fashion. Duggan secured 78 percent of the vote.
As the 10-year anniversary of that election approached, the Telegraph Herald interviewed Duggan. Following are highlights of that conversation.
TH: Ten years later, is being mayor what you thought it would be?
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Terry Duggan Age: 48 Occupation: Real estate broker and owner, Duggan Realty. Elected Dubuque mayor in 1993; re-elected in 1997 and 2001. Family: Husband of Aleeda. Father of Connor, 10, and Aleece, 6. Brother of Tim, Chuck and Pat Duggan and Maureen Runde. Son of John and Camilla Duggan (both deceased). Hometown: Dubuque. Education: Bachelor's degree in business administration, Loras College (1978). Graduate of Wahlert High School (1973) and St. Raphael Catholic School. Professional associations: Iowa Department of Economic Development board; Greater Dubuque Development Corp. executive board; East Central Intergovernment Association executive board; Dubuque Metropolitan Area Transportation Study chairman; Dubuque County Conference Board chairman; member of national, state and local boards of Realtors. Community leadership: Dubuque Area Chamber of Commerce board member, Boy Scouts advisory board, certified mediator. |
It's been a very positive experience. I think the greatest job you can have, especially in Dubuque, Iowa.
The one thing I have learned is - a couple of things - is never make a decision or react until you hear the other side of a story. We don't live in a black-and-white world and people do things for a reason and usually they're positive, although maybe a negative result comes about.
Also, nobody can do any job alone. Especially as mayor, you need very supportive people all the way around and people that come together in a community.
TH: Did you learn it the hard way?
TD: My dad told me a long time ago that whether you pay for your education or you get it from the school of hard knocks, you get your education.
The one thing that they don't have, of course, is Mayor 101. There is no preparation for the job. I wasn't involved in politics before. I just knew that I didn't like what was going, that I thought I could change it.
But there really isn't a class you can take, like Realtors take classes or continuing education classes, to hone up. You just become mayor and, from that point, you're on your own.
TH: Learn as you go. We probably could fill this newspaper page with the list of some of the exciting things that have happened during your time as mayor. What, in your mind, stands out?
TD: I think No. 1 was the saving of FDL or Farmland Food the first time. It gave a certain realization to a community that if a group of leaders would band together that great things could happen.
There was a confidence that had been lost in the late '80s, early '90s. That was one of my three points that I ran on for mayor in the beginning was putting a positive image back in Dubuque. I think that helped do that.
Others realized that when the newspaper ran the story, "The Art of the Deal." It was very interesting reading. People found it refreshing that they had leaders that would work as hard as they did behind the scenes to try to save jobs.
The next most important thing I believe was the "Come Home to Your Future, Come Back to Dubuque" program. It connected Dubuquers from the past and told them that there was a future back here for them in Dubuque. It gave families an opportunity to find out more about their community than they knew.
Then, obviously, the America's River project. What a wonderful bonding of everyone in the community to help that.
But had the first two things not happened and some other very positive things, I don't know if America's River ever would have been pulled off. Because it took thousands of hours. It took a community reaching, not only down deep into their pocketbooks, but into their souls to say that Dubuque has changed and we can make Dubuque just that much better.
TH: That's an interesting point: That the Farmland process and the "Come Back to Your Future" process were necessary stepping stones for America's River.
TD: Correct.
TH: America's River could not have been accomplished without those other two?
TD: I think it could have been accomplished. I think it would have taken a lot more, and I don't think it would have been the project that it is now.
We had to not only make people in Dubuque believe that this was a process that was going to change not only Dubuque but the state of Iowa and the way the rest of the world views us, but getting the people at the state level and the federal level to understand that.
TH: Do you encounter a lot of misperceptions about the job of mayor?
TD: Usually people are reaching out for help and they're not knowledgeable about how the process works. You have to be sensitive to that and try to walk them through the process, that I'm just one member of a group of seven and that we don't run the daily operation of city hall.
They really believe that the mayor ought to be able to just start directing traffic and go fight the fire and arrest the speeder and do all those things. I had a misperception myself of what was expected of me and what my job really was, because every time you heard the siren go off, you thought you had to jump in your car and go fight the fire, too.
A lot of people are amazed to find out that it's a part-time position. They think that I have an office at City Hall and that I'm there all the time, seven days a week.
In this form of government, I shouldn't be doing that much. It is the city manager's obligation and his duty. He (Mike Van Milligen) is obviously doing a very fine job of that. We give him policy and direction, although there are certain times that I have authority, in certain situations, to do things.
TH: I know you're not a clock-watcher, but how many hours a week do you end up spending, on average?
TD: I work all the time, so I don't know. (Pauses) I'd say 20 to 25 hours a week. I've tempered that down a little over time.
There was a learning process. Like, what do they do at Flexsteel and Dubuque Stamp and all those places? I've had that education, so I've taken that off my plate.
I've often said my family comes first, my business second and the mayor comes third. If someone can't understand that, then there's always the ballot box in a couple of years that would take care of that. But people have been very respectful of my time.
TH: Now, there was some flare-up about that this summer, as you were going through the budget-cut process. What's appropriate for folks if they want to get ahold of you?
TD: I'm a great proponent of the telephone. I don't mind the telephone.
E-mail is OK; I'm not much into it.
Letter writing. I'll read letters, but I'm just not good at responding to them. A lot of times, someone will write me and I'll pick up the phone and call them back. It's just easier for me to do it that way. Composition and I were kind of enemies when I was in college. Although I did well in composition, I'm just not much into that.
TH: We might have to go look that up.
TD: Actually, really what happened during the summer was my father-in-law was in the hospital with prostate cancer and my mother-in-law was in the hospital. She was getting ready to have a kidney transplant. So they were both in the hospital at the same time. And my wife works the third shift and goes to bed at like 4 in the morning.
Well, a lot of people were calling home and they were calling at 8 o'clock. Well, every time the phone rang, she didn't know if it was the hospital calling or whatever. It was just like every 15 minutes, she was picking up the phone. Well, the poor lady, for a two-week period there, didn't get any sleep.
Once again, I actually prefer the telephone.
People find this amazing, but I don't think I had 15 phone calls in the nine years for that at my residence. People will call me all day here (at the office). I don't mind taking a phone call at home. That's fine. And people are generally respectful of it. At 1 o'clock in the morning, I don't consider to be respectful. But every now and then, you get one of those.
TH: But in general they can reach you here at the real estate office.
TD: Sure. I'd prefer if they call me here. That would be better.
TH: Setting aside the constituent contact, but going back and replaying in your mind the budget-cuts turmoil of this summer, if you had it to do over again, or if Mike and the council had it to do over again, would there have been a less traumatic or less tension-filled way to get that done? Or is that just going to have to be part of the process?
TD: No, I think Mike was trying to be very open and honest about how the process was working. I think he let out information, or information got out ahead of time.
There were pamphlets being spread by the fire department that talked about "the city council is going to cut this and that they're going to eliminate jobs and do all this." He asked each department, "Give me the worse-case scenario, then give me an alternate, and then give me the best scenario and let's see how we can get this thing done."
Well, he never really should have gone public with that. He should have assembled all the information, come up with what his recommendation was going to be and then brought that information forward before everybody got all this other information. That would have saved all kinds of phone calls and headaches and things. Because, obviously, what we were hearing on the street and seeing in the pamphlets was a far cry from what reality was.
In the end, if it would have been packaged together with Mike's recommendation before any of it became public, it would have saved all kinds of tension, I believe.
TH: Main Street has been open for more than a year now. No pedestrian mall. Has it worked out well? Good? Bad?
TD: It looks OK. It looks great. I would contend it would look good remodeled with or without a street. There are more vacancies on Main today than there were before the street was open.
TH: Housing. Does Dubuque have a shortage of available or affordable housing? I want to subdivide that. Single family and multi-family.
TD: We've come a long way in both. My short answer would be I think we have adequate in both. Not that we don't have to continue to develop it or be aware of the fact that we need more, but we've come a long way with policies for the new housing.
Right now, there is quite a large vacancy rate in rental housing, so I think that there's obviously a balance. We finally are in balance, I believe, in both.
TH: Human rights. Sexual- orientation ordinance. It's come up once or twice during your 10 years. Does Dubuque need such an ordinance?
TD: If the issue were to come forward again today, I think I would vote the way that I did in the past.
TH: And that was ...
TD: To vote no. I don't see the need to raise the awareness of that. If I thought there was a difficulty or ...
I always fall on the side of the federal and the state human rights ordinances and their code. If they were to adopt it at a federal or state level, I would certainly vote to adopt it then at the city council level.
TH: Farmland sold the meatpacking plant to Smithfield. What's your opinion regarding what happened with our facility here under the Smithfield ownership?
TD: I think it's a shame to see an industry that was so great going to the decline that it did. But, given Smithfield's record that I've seen across the country and that, if they were going... I would prefer it be closed than Smithfield run it.
TH: Wal-Mart. Should the city, through direct support or tax abatement or other assistance, help another Wal-Mart locate in Dubuque?
TD: No. I believe if they wanted to go over in the former FDL plant, that they should have been allowed to do that. Nothing the North End needs more than a Wal-Mart or a nice large retailer like that.
I don't believe in giving incentives for retail. They're good jobs, but they're not the type of jobs, once again, that we incent.
TH: How does being mayor - especially a long-time mayor - impact your professional life? Is being mayor good or bad for business?
TD: I'd say it's been a neutral effect. I think there are certain people that think that I've seen some people switch to another Realtor because they think that I'm just too busy. But then, once again, I'm known by a lot more people out there now, too. I've had some sales from people that didn't know who I was before I became mayor but over the years I got to know.
TH: There are occasions when a business comes before the council where you have to - or choose to - abstain because of a potential conflict of interest. Where is that line drawn?
TD: Specifically what I always look at is, "Do I have any type of contractual relationship with them now? Are they a customer client of mine right now?"
Barry (Lindahl, corporation counsel) would tell you the strict letter of the law says it has to be with that specific project. Just because I have your house listed and you come up for a zoning matter on a building down on Central Avenue, there really isn't a conflict of interest there.
I run everything by Barry, because he knows how cautious I am, because at all costs, I would either give up my relationship with the person as a Realtor or if I perceive a conflict of interest, I would end that relationship before I would ever even cross the line of having someone accuse me of that.
But the ones that I really, every one that I've abstained from and kept from the discussion, I literally leave the room. I think that there could be a certain influence amongst my peers by my being there is why I just literally get up and leave the chambers.
TH:A shaking of the fist if things aren't going your way?
TD:Yeah. Like in the Port of Dubuque. At one time, I had two different investment groups. This is long before Vision Iowa. They could see things going on with the gambling boat and the museum and that, wondering there's a potential for growth.
I approached every property owner down there and asked if their property was for sale or if would they entertain an offer on it. Once I've gone there - even a few years later - to vote to either or not buy their property, or do whatever, could be perceived as a conflict of interest.
TH:You're still an investor in the hotel down in the Port of Dubuque?
TD:Yes.
TH:How far out does that conflict of interest line draw, where you have tourism and maybe some secondary benefits?
TD:See, I never did vote on the hotel. As a matter of fact, Joe Robbins signed the lease for the city; he was mayor pro tem at the time.
Before I ever made the investment in that, I once again called Barry, and he told me that I could invest up to 5 percent of the total investment of the hotel, which was $1.3 million. I looked in my billfold that day and I was a little short. Being that I invested 1/100th of that amount.
I didn't really invest in the hotel. I invested in an LLC (limited liability corporation). Our mission is to go out and invest in hotels. The group has. And we're in several hotels. It just happened that this (Grand Harbor) was one of the hotels.
I'm not on the board of directors and we're even B shareholders, which means that we have no voting rights and that as soon as there's a dividend, they pay us back, we're out of there.
TH:Now another project that's being thought about is the prospect of a minor league baseball stadium down in that area.
TD:Correct.
TH:Is public money to bring minor league baseball to Dubuque a wise investment?
TD: I believe that it is. I would not feel comfortable in just finding the money somewhere in the capital improvement budget to put up a ballpark. I believe that it's the voters' right to decide whether we should be investing in a facility such as that or not.
TH:The dollar figure, no pun intended, is in the ballpark of $16 per year per property tax. Average property tax bill.
TD:Right. That's it. So the voters will have to vote if another $1.20 per month is what they'd, if they'd like to see another $1.20 a month on their tax bill to promote baseball in Dubuque.
I believe it would have a very positive benefit and add one more night's stay for the average tourist that comes to that area now. I think the synergy of having the ballpark is good because when the museum closes at 6, people will look for something else to do.
After you've been in a waterpark hotel, like I have several times with my children from 10 in the morning until 6 at night, it's, "Get me out of here! I've got to have something else to do no matter what it is." It would be family entertainment.
TH:In reviewing your first 10 years as mayor, are there votes or actions you sort of wish you could call time out and call for a do over?
TD:The one that always pops up first when I think of that is there was a gentleman by the name of Alan Israel CHECK SPELLING that wanted to do some condominium units out in the Marna Ridge area. I guess it was the first controversial zoning decision that I made. The neighborhood information was overwhelming. If I had it to do over again, I would not have voted against his project. When I think about it, housing is housing. It was upscale. It would have been wonderful. Not that I'm ashamed of what Marna Ridge turned out to be. Obviously that's a great thing too.
That's the one thing I hate about the position: zoning issues. Especially if they get controversial. Somebody feels like they've won and somebody feels like they've lost. There's just no way of splitting that baby.
It's pretty neat what happened recently on QHQ, that they were able to work that thing out. That's why I'm glad we did create things like the Dubuque Dispute Resolution Center is the fact that it works. Hiram Melendez did a great job.
As far as other votes go, I stand alone a lot, but that's for a reason. I don't know. I think I always do my homework and have a passion for things that I do that I don't really have any regrets of other things.
TH: You often hear from neighbors opposed to whatever zoning issue is before the council. In general, you hear some pretty dire predictions about what's going to happen in the area. Sometimes the council is persuaded, but other times the council isn't. You're a real estate broker. You know property values. You're the mayor; you know the community. How often do these dire predictions that you hear at the council table actually manifest themselves when the project goes forward?
TD:Never. It's interesting because I was just thinking of that recently. The neighbors will come in and, rightfully so, they're afraid. It's change and they don't know what to expect. They believe that their property values are going down.
I always get a chuckle out of someone trying to make a case that their property value is going to change one way or the other, when they're talking to a Realtor. Instead of asking an opinion, they're telling me actually what my business is.
But I'll drive by a project. I know the neighbor is really upset about that, but five years later, the building's up, the trees are growing, the shrubbery is going, the flowers are doing their thing and life goes on.
The telling point of that is there have been times when I've ended up voting for a commercial development or something to go on and that the neighbors were upset about things going on. Years later, then, to go out and list or sell a home that's next to that project and have the new buyer come in and never know that anything ever went on.
TH:Fifty, 75, maybe 100 years from now, when the editor of the Telegraph Herald talks to the mayor of Dubuque at that time, 2103, what do you hope is remembered about the past 10 years in Dubuque, and what you hope is remembered about your role in that?
TD:I hope that what they see is a much better Dubuque and that we laid one heck of a bed of stone, bedrock, here that allowed all that to happen. I think that's the beauty of what we've done now in the last 10 years is we've really just laid and really good foundation for things to happen.
When you look back 20 years ago, you think, "Well, we've arrived," and that's where I disagree with a lot of people. I think we've just started.