Jerry Enzler

Director of the Dubuque County Historical Society
Brian Cooper
TH executive editor
Years ago described as possessing the rare traits combining dreamer and doer, Jerry Enzler continues to dream and do. The executive director of the Dubuque County Historical Society, and its crown jewel, the Mississippi River Museum and Aquarium, Enzler is touting a multi-million-dollar expansion plan involving the museum campus and Diamond Jo Casino. Meanwhile, he continues to promote the river - not only the Mississippi, but all of America's rivers - and their history and ecology. The Telegraph Herald recently engaged Enzler in an extensive interview. Here are highlights of that conversation.

I read the article from your selection as First Citizen, and I had forgotten that your very first job in Dubuque was to run the Ham House operation.

That's right. Helen Mercer hired me. I was so inexperienced I drove up and knocked on the door of the log cabin, thinking that was the Ham House. When I was a student here at Loras, it was only open during the summer and I wasn't here in the summer. I went back to Washington, D.C., in the summer. I always had a fascination with working at the Ham House and I thought that the log cabin was the Ham House. Knocked on the door and no one answered. Then it dawned on me that maybe this big house is the Ham House. I guess that's how not to prepare for an interview, but I got the job anyway.

They must not have seen you knocking on the log cabin.
Jerry Enzler

Age: 55

Occupation: Executive Director, Dubuque County Historical Society and National Mississippi River Museum and Aquarium, Dubuque . Joined Dubuque County Historical Society in 1977.

Family: Husband of Katherine Fischer. Father of Rebekah Enzler (son-in-law Jerod Bast), of Columbia, Mo.; Jason (daughter-in-law Carrie Paulin Enzler), of Washington D.C.; James, of Dubuque; Elizabeth, of Madison, Wis.; and Andrew, of Dubuque. Grandfather of Quin Bast and Finn Enzler.

Hometown: Washington, D.C.

Education: Cooperstown (N.Y.) Graduate Program, State University of New York, master's degree in history museum studies, 1979; Loras College, bachelor's degree in accounting, 1973.

Community leadership: President, America 's River Corporation; Envision 2010.

Professional leadership: Executive Committee, Coastal Ecosystem Learning Centers; Task Force for Ocean Literacy, White House Council for Environmental Quality; featured historian, "Mighty Mississippi,"History Channel; founder and chair, Network of Museums, Mississippi River Parkway Commission; featured historian, "Homes of the Mississippi," HGTV; past chair, National Maritime Alliance.

Major awards and honors: Honorary doctorate of law, Loras College, 2006; Coastal America Outstanding Leadership Award, 2006; Mississippi River Parkway Commission Distinguished Leadership Award 2006; honorary doctorate of humanities, Clarke College , 2001; Telegraph Herald First Citizen Award, 1991; Distinguished Service, Humanities Iowa, 1992.

Hobbies: Reading, writing, swimming, river activities.

I think so, yeah.

I was also reminded that you weren't a history major. You went to Loras as an accounting major, but you took a few history classes at Loras.

Yeah, just a few. I was an accounting major and worked two years at Arthur Andersen in Milwaukee as an accountant. Felt I wanted to do something that had a more direct meaning to people, so I spent a year teaching in Clarksdale, Miss., as a volunteer. Out of that I became much more enthused about history. Started a book, which I am still working on. But I'm pretty aggressive at it now. I'm working two pages every morning. I've gotten into the habit of getting up around 5:30 every morning and put two pages in. I'm mainly revising at this point. Spent a year and some months at Ham House and then thought this is the career for me and got a master's degree in museum studies.

And you had graduate studies in Cooperstown, N.Y., home of the National Baseball Hall of Fame.

That's right. The Baseball Hall of Fame, the New York Historical Association, The Farmers' Museum, The Fenimore House, Folk Art Museum. They also had a carriage museum and an Indian museum that just recently closed. It was a small community - the winter population was 2,000 people - but they had all these museums. It was a tremendous place to study. I remember when I came out I didn't understand what my professor was saying, but he said you'll be able to write your own ticket. I said, what do you mean? He said, museums all over the country are trying to decide, do they want to hire a business person or do they want to hire a historian or a museum person or a humanist. You bring both talents to the table and so you'll be in a good position. I remember also when I interviewed, they said, are you willing to move around a lot because if we accept you into a graduate program, you may have to move from city to city to city to get a job. I told them I was willing to move. It turns out that the museum has ch anged again and again and again. So I've been able to stay here and the museum has changed on me.

So in effect, you moved without ever leaving.

That's right, yeah. I moved from a historic house museum to also include a riverboat museum. We built a welcome center and then to include a sort of environmental history and aquarium. So the job has evolved delightfully. It's been a great treat to explore a new avenue. I feel like I'm getting an advanced degree every four or five years in a new subject.

The Ham House at the time you were hired - that would be in 1977 - was the only facility that the Historical Society operated. Ten thousand visitors, approximately, a year?

That's right.

What are we seeing now with all the facilities of the Dubuque County Historical Society?

Probably about 260,000 people, not counting events. In the early years, sometimes we would count events because it was significant. We'd have about 10,000 people come to the Taste of Dubuque and that's on top of it. In terms of people who walk through our doors and have a substantive learning experience, about 260,000 people. I always wanted to be a writer, and I've done a lot of writing here for the museum. I know you're a writer. I sometimes take pleasure in knowing that in four years a million people will have read my writing, if they read the labels.

The displays?

The displays, right. That, and you also write when selecting which piece will go in an exhibit and how it will be displayed and then the film work, too, whether it's a film or interactive computer kiosk or something. I work on those, too. That's what I take the greatest joy in my job, is doing that kind of work. Developing the message. Trying to be part of the team that communicates.

Do you mind disclosing what your writing project is, two pages a day?

It's the history of Jim Bridger. Jim Bridger is a fascinating study in the American West. He came from Virginia and moved to St. Louis. Was orphaned at the age of 13. Apprenticed to a blacksmith. Went west with none other than Mike Fink. Mike Fink was the patroon of a keelboat and Bridger was 17 years old. Went west and stayed out west for 18 years. Didn't taste bread. Married three different Indian wives, not at the same time, but in succession. Literally spent his whole life in the west and saw the development of the west from 1822 to 1866. He probably guided more Army expeditions or wagon trains or fur trapping brigades than any other person in history. And he's relatively little known, so I think that's what captivated me in the first place, is trying to tell a story whose should be told. He was illiterate. He didn't leave any writing except for one letter that he dictated. So it's laborious finding out about him from others, but exciting.

A lot of folks probably expect that you would do a biography of a riverman or someone closely associated with the Mississippi River.

Well, Bridger has been inducted into the National Rivers Hall of Fame for his work on the western rivers. True. But I started this, it's actually my interest in Jim Bridger which lead me to working here at the museum. It was when I was teaching as a volunteer I discovered this story, this great untold story. It was 1975, and here, 31 years later, I am committed to finishing the manuscript and sending it to an agent in this next nine months.

So, fall of '07, it goes off?

Mm, hmm, Fall of '07 it goes off, come hell or high water.

Do you say that a lot in your business, with the River Museum, hell or high water?

We try not to, but we do work with deadlines. And that's what I've found. If you don't have a deadline, these wonderful ambitions can just linger. There's nothing like an exhibit deadline to motivate a whole team of people to expand their work from eight hours to 16 or to suddenly pull three all-nighters in a row the night before it opens. It seems no matter how much advance time you have - we're not as late anymore - but when we opened the Woodward Discovery Center and the new museum and aquarium ...

I was going to ask you about that.

I literally had to announce to all of the contractors, You have 10 minutes to leave the building and sweep up as you leave because the donors are coming in in tuxedoes at the front door and you have to leave out the back.

This was late June...

June 28th.

... of '03. We were having photographers and reporters coming over to do the advance stories, the preview of the opening, and they're coming back, shaking their heads saying, I don't think that museum is going to be ready. I know. We had an exhibit supplier, vendor, creating the exhibits. Every day, there would be a new shipment of goods of exhibitory coming in. Actually, Dennis went to two-a-day shipments; one in the morning and one in the afternoon. I'd check with him every day - which exhibits arrived, which didn't. Actually on Friday the 27th, when I found out, OK, the last shipment has arrived, that's when we realized, OK, these two exhibits aren't going to be ready, spread out a buffet table or an education table and we'll do some other activity in that space. A few of the exhibits weren't quite ready, but it seemed to be a hit, anyway. From the day we opened, people really responded to it. And there's a little bit of luck in that - or unknown, I should say. You don't know sometimes, whether it's a book or a museum exhibit, what's going to capture people's interest and what's not, but this certainly did. I'm thankful to our designer and the little team who really helped it come together. Looking back on that opening, are there some things that surprised you or have surprised you concerning what connected with people and what didn't? One of the biggest surprises was how interested people became in the history. We entered into this with the idea that environmental history is important and knowing who you are in relation to a place, like the Mississippi River, is worth exploring, both historically and also in the current time. I remember one person said, So you're abandoning your role in history, huh? I said, Not at all. We're developing an outdoor boatyard and we're developing new historical exhibits and this and this. What surprised me was how many people said things like, Gee, I just went through the Fred Woodward Riverboat Museum. When did you do that? That's tremendous. It had been open for many years and we had made modest improvements. But suddenly we went from about 70,000 museum visitors to that first year, 301,000 visitors. The William M. Black remains, among many people, the favorite exhibit. Some people like the otters, but I'm surprised at how many people say, not the otter, not the main channel, not the alligator, but

The William M. Black. For many of them, that's their favorite exhibit.

The Black has been here for 20 ...

Since 1980. Been here 26 years. It was our first exhibit. Before the Woodward Museum was fully established as a building, the boat arrived in June of 1980. We opened it that fall. So that was a surprise, that with this great lure of aquariums and showing the river as it is today, so many people responded so enthusiastically to the history that we're telling. In another sense it's not. It shouldn't be a surprise because the history of the Mississippi is one of the great stories of America. The other surprise is how long people enjoy the museum exhibits. We did a survey in the fall of '05. Forty-seven percent of our visitors were going to stay or did stay three hours or longer on that visit. Now, people know to prepare. But early on, it caught a lot of people by surprise. People were telling us, oh, I skipped lunch or I missed an appointment or I thought I was going to see a movie this afternoon, but I didn't, I just stayed here. A lot of people have told me they've stayed five and six hours. The direc tor of the Itasca State Park. The governor came here on his day off, because on the opening day, he didn't see as much. He literally stayed here 5½ hours.

This is Gov. Vilsack?

Mm, hmm, and Christie.

Did they buy much in the gift shop?

I don't remember. I do remember this. He said, Jerry, I'm here as a tourist today. I said, What does that mean? He said, It means we'll take a few pictures but then I want you to let us enjoy the exhibits and you go back to your work and we're just going to wander around and enjoy it as any Iowan would enjoy it. Which was gratifying.

Did you sit in your office then and sort of hope everything was going OK downstairs?

I assumed it probably would be. No actually, I got engrossed in work. Coming out afterwards, he said, Jerry, you have one of the most interesting jobs in the state. If I ever thought of changing jobs, yours might be one that I'd want. I thought, Well, Governor, I don't know if I could do your job, there's a lot of responsibility. So I think I'd want my job, too.

Well, he's not the first Iowa governor to compliment you. I understand from Gov. Branstad that he tried to hire you away years ago.

He did. He offered me the position of the director of the State Historical Society of Iowa. And that was a very difficult challenge for me because I love Dubuque, but professionally, I thought, gee, this was the mid-80's, I thought what an opportunity to be the director of the State Historical Society and all of its museums. I think what turned the tide - one was the support from my board who said, you know, if you stay here, we can promise you we will work with you to make your dreams come true here in Dubuque. And the other was, I looked at the history of Iowa and as exciting as it is, I looked at the history of the Mississippi River and thought, now that's a national story that I want to be involved in. It was more of a personal choice of what topic I wanted to devote. At that time, I thought the next five years of my life could...

Five years?

Yeah, five years. It's been 29 now. It'll be 30 in May.

That's right. This facility is, well, it's not a Dubuque museum.

No.

In many respects, this museum could be positioned anywhere up and down the Mississippi.

Yes, it could. And that was very much my intention. We have the Ham House and the Old Jail to tell some of the local story. We have the Ryan House. We have an active tour program. We really felt we needed to tell the national story. Sometimes people would call it the Dubuque River Museum. It's not the Dubuque River Museum. It's the Mississippi River Museum and it tells the story of the greatest river in America and one of the fabled rivers in the world. It is somewhat audacious perhaps but we had this written down. Our Mission Statement was to create a world-class museum. And world class, to us, meant you would be not only national in scope, but it would be as good as anything you would find in New York or London or Paris or Chicago or anywhere else.

And you've delivered on that?

To the extent that we can, I think we have. It has a different feel than a big urban. It doesn't feel like an urban museum. It does have a sense of place. I think that's one of the attractive natures of it that you feel like you can get in touch with the river. Frankly, that's what we felt we had lost in 1991 when the casino gaming came in and it was just so overwhelming. Land was quite tight here at the Ice Harbor at the time, so parking, there were like six parking lots built all around our museum and the casino and everything. We felt that the museum had lost some since of place and was being overshadowed by just a conglomeration of parking, it had to be put in quickly; so one of our goals under Bill Woodward's leadership was create a sense of place. We started working on that in 1992. He died in 1995. We started working in 1992. He died in '95 and left us a major bequest, which got the ball rolling. It took until 2003, but it was well worth the effort.

How important is the Smithsonian affiliation to the operation?

It's very, very important. One, we have a collegial relationship with the Smithsonian staff that I think is very valuable to us. Not only Harold Closter, who runs the affiliate program, but, for example, the Smithsonian is doing a new ocean hall at the Museum of Natural History. This hall will be the largest exhibit at the Museum of Natural History, it will be opening in '08. They've offered us an interactive kiosk and offered us the opportunity to overlay the story of the Mississippi onto that kiosk. They will consider actually having the Mississippi story in the Smithsonian. So it not only brings the Smithsonian resources to Dubuque, but the story of the Mississippi and rivers to the sea can go now to the Smithsonian. Another important partnership is Coastal America. We'll also be working with 22, they're called eco-system learning centers, but frankly, they're all aquariums, including the Shedd Aquarium, the Monterey Bay Aquarium, the new aquarium in Georgia. I was very flattered. I was asked to s erve on a task force with Admiral (Conrad C.) Lautenbacher, who's the chief administrator of NOAA. It's a six-member task force. It's Admiral Lautenbacher from NOAA; it's someone from the Department of Interior; the head of water for EPA; and myself; and Ted Beattie, the director of the Shedd. Our mission is to try and explore a way that we can get these important messages about water to 25,000,000 people that NOAA and EPA and Fish and Wildlife and the Park Service, they all have important stories they want to tell, but they're bureaucrats and they look to Ted and myself. I was fortunate - well, I kind of volunteered for it, too - but fortunate to be selected. They said, You help us; we can collaborate and reach a significant number of people. So, we're creating a pilot program of the Chesapeake, the Mississippi, the Great Lakes and the Pacific that would be ultimately to these 22 centers.

And NOAA is?

National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

Oh, like the weather service.

Yeah. They're very interested in ocean health. Every time they talk about oceans, we say, you know, the oceans begin in the rivers. Jean-Michel Cousteau has agreed to be one of our consultants. The way he phrased it is the oceans begin at the mountaintops. He told me that when we were together at a conference in France. He was speaking and I was listening, but he told me that afterwards - and NOAA agrees - You can't protect oceans without protecting rivers. I've made the case that you can't protect things just from an environmental point of view. You have to let be people be aware of their heritage. Preserving a valuable body of water is important in its own right, but knowing how engrained it is with our national heritage makes it kind of a national calling. The whole nation needs to make sure that the Mississippi River is preserved and enjoyed for generations to come. And that it's a clean river. It's not only good for animals and human life today, but it's part of our heritage.

And how would you describe the state of the Mississippi River environmentally?

Well, it has different challenges. In the '70s, the big challenge was pollution. Today, the challenge is sedimentation and nutrients, like nitrogen and phosphorus that flow off the fields of Iowa and Wisconsin and Illinois and create this nutrient lode which makes an algae bloom and the algae prospers very well, both in the Mississippi and in the Gulf. Then when the algae dies, it sinks to the bottom and depletes the area of oxygen, so it creates what's called a "dead zone." Smaller invertebrates die, larger fish swim away. It seems the only major animal species we know that survives well are jellyfish. Part of our Rivers to the Seas story that we're going to be telling the future is Where do rivers start? The Mississippi not only starts in Itasca, but it starts at the Appalachians and it starts in the Rocky Mountains. And where does it end? Does it end at the Gulf of Mexico? It actually gets picked up by the gulf stream, so you have a river within the ocean. Dan Basta, I was with him two weeks ago; he's the director of the National Marine Sanctuaries. He said the Mississippi enters the gulf stream and flows for hundreds and hundreds of miles and flows east as it comes out of the delta, hits the Florida peninsula, goes around Florida and goes up the Atlantic coast and then heads out toward Europe.

How do they track or measure that?

Well, they measure it by both salinity, fresh water flowing. The temperature change, I think, happens rather quickly. They measure the amount of sedimentation, the amount of actual soil that is carried, and during flood times, like the flood of '93, I think NOAA has estimated that the Mississippi flowed 900 miles into the ocean during the flood of 1993. So they have ocean-testing stations, which we'll be hooking up to, but they have them both in the water, but they also have satellite and they can see the flow of the Mississippi just by the color change. You can see by the color, salinity, measuring the temperature, measuring the nitrogen phosphorus in the sediment.

You have a photo or video downstairs to that effect, if I'm not mistaken, that shows it coming out...

Yeah, it shows it coming out and flowing.

Can you concisely describe some of the highlights of what will be in this Phase II project?

It's very exciting. I guess the key components, one is the Great River Center, which we agree with the TH editorial, we need a different name that kind of conveys that message. What the Mississippi River Museum has done for the Mississippi River, we now want to do for the Mississippi watershed and other rivers of America. So we're expanding the geographic scope of the areas that we're talking about. So it's not just the Mississippi, but the Ohio, Illinois, Missouri, the Colorado, Columbia, the Rio Grande. We also want to get into some new technology with a River Max Theater. A River Max, I want to make sure it's understood, is not an IMAX theater. River Max, for us, is a term that we coined. It's a large-format theater that uses digital, high-definition projection, similar to the new theater that just opened at Mount Vernon, in Washington, D.C. The current size of that theater, that technology is 60 feet wide and 39 feet tall, that's how large a single screen can be. We're thinking that by the time w e open in 2009, 2010, that may expand to maybe 85 feet wide. So the Great River Center to explore the rivers of America with experiential exhibits that create immersive environments. A second component is the River Max theater, which will have a feature film presentation, digital film presentation about Rivers to the Sea and will have special effects that can only be done in a room that's specially designed for that. In other words, this is not something you can take a DVD and watch at home, but we'll also rent up to eight films a years, so it has the opportunity to show things like March of the Penguins or The Abyss or things like that. The third component is River Research Center. The River Research Center is an opportunity to expand on the research we're doing and we see three components to that research. One is our historical and cultural research, which we already have a great collection kept in the William Bowell Library. Second is species conservation. Right now, we're working with Wyoming toads and mussels. We have 8,000 live glocidia that were promulgated here at the museum in 2005. Higgins' eye mussel put back into the wild. This is a small little mussel which has stood in the way of a lot of building projects. And we're also trying to discover symbiotic relationship among other animals. And the third component is habitat restoration. In other words, how can we play a role in the reduction of nutrients or shrinking of the dead zone or other major needs, like the island-building project north of Lock and Dam 11? That kind of thing is happening up and down. So those are the three components of our research. And it won't be just the r esearch that we do. We want to celebrate the research and educate people about the research that's done at Loras and Clarke and University of Dubuque , Iowa State, University of Iowa, Tulane - anybody who's doing work on the river, we want the public to know that this is kind of a living, breathing laboratory and there's more work to be done and more science to be discovered, more history to be interpreted.

On the theater, to the patron or the visitor, what will be the difference between an IMAX and what you're calling the River Max? One of the key differences will be that we will create a feature film about the Rivers of America, focusing in large measure on the Mississippi. So in that sense, I guess if you go to the Grand Canyon, you can see an IMAX of the Grand Canyon. Some of the other IMAXes in Iowa, they're more general purpose, like the Science Center in Cedar Rapids and in Des Moines, the Putnam. They're more kind of a general run of things of a lot of interest. We want to tell the definitive story, if there is such a thing, of the Mississippi and the other major rivers of America. So the content of this feature film, we'll be creating it ourselves with, obviously, talent, but we'll be producing it. That's one. The other will be kind of the nature of the programming. It's not that we won't show Polar Express or The Matrix, but that won't be our focus. We think there's enough venues where you can see that kind of film, so that's second. Third, we'll trade a little bit of size. This will be a little bit smaller in terms of screen size than an IMAX theater, but it will be enhanced by effects, such as we're exploring holographic figures that might appear during a certain part of the show; fog, which we use now in a couple of our theaters, but in a more dramatic way. So it becomes what you call a 4-D theater. Sight and sound are the first 2 Ds. The third dimension is often thought of as 3-D, you know, 3-D glasses, and our film will be 3-D. And the fourth dimension are these special effects, these immersement environments that make you feel that you are on a keel boat with Lewis and Clark and you can feel the wind in your face. Or if you're approaching the falls of St. Anthony, you actually get a little mist coming onto you. Nothing to get you overly wet. In Mount Vernon, they show a scene of Valley Forge and at one point, snow started falling from the roof. I thought it was going to be unusual, but it was really quite moving because on the screen, you were really engrossed in the story of this tremendous suffering. The men had th eir feet bandaged and bloody and it started to snow on the screen and suddenly, it started to snow in the theater and I felt like I was with them. I wasn't suffering, but I felt like I was with them. So that will be the difference. We'll have a specialty film. It'll be a little bit smaller; it's be digital, so it will be considerably less expensive to operate and that's an advantage to the institution and to the community because IMAX films are very expensive. We were advised that this market was not big enough for an IMAX film.

I ask, in part, because several IMAX operations around the country are struggling to make a go of it.

Yeah. And part of that is also because they have a very popular film, they need to fill seats constantly and we can be a little more accommodating to the pace that the visitor wants to come. If 100,000 people want to come in a three-month summer period, we can show our films. If we want, as is currently the case, have maybe 100 to 200 people a day during a weekday in the winter, we can accommodate that also. We don't have the financial pressure to remit a certain amount of money of IMAX.

Where does the bowling alley fit in? Bowling alley, the bowling lanes, are part of the Diamond Jo Entertainment Center. Their studies have shown that there has not been a new bowling alley built in Dubuque for 48 years. Bowling is popular among certain age groups, including my own children and other, younger people really gravitate towards bowling. Certainly, all age groups do. It's a family activity that, I haven't seen it yet, but I know people who have gone to see I think it's at Reno, where the lighting and the special effects and the scoring, the style of it is really updated. It gives a whole new meaning. It's not your old man's bowling, to paraphrase the commercial. It's not your father's bowling. This is something new that is supposed to be quite exciting.

What was your reaction when you first heard bowling alley? I wanted to hear more. Why bowling? What does it offer in terms of activity? But it's certainly a very wholesome activity. I love to go bowling. Well, the bowling, the three different food options, the expansion of the casino, gaming opportunities, I think that brings some economic vitality to Dubuque, obviously, great economic vitality. The generosity of providing that waterfront space to me, that's what floors me. Having the ability to expand on the waterfront. I never thought we would have that opportunity to look at more waterfront space.

And that land is coming from ... Peninsula Gaming, the Diamond Jo Casino. The Portside building is being donated to the museum. The museum owns a small portion of that building. It's actually a duplex. We own 16,000 square feet. The Diamond Jo is donating 35,000 square feet and what is generally perceived as the Portside building. Collectively, that's a 51,000-square-foot building. And that beautiful plaza or walkway between the Portside and the water is a tremendous opportunity for staging and for dining along the water, snacks or whatever. So it is a dream come true for us to be able to have that waterfront location.

In terms of the land use in the port area, you've been here and you've seen it evolve and make the transition from industrial commercial to hat it is now. Where does the McGraw-Hill project fit into that? Is that contrary to the general direction of this part of the city? I don't think it's contrary. I guess one of the challenges is how much entertainment and education can you pack into a site in a community of our size? The whole water's edge, from the Shot Tower all the way to the wetland at the Museum and Aquarium is all focused on public education and/or entertainment. Now, with the museum taking over the Portside building, with the casino going inland and also providing that and also when Briggs' development for Platinum, that's providing a lot more. I don't see that as a negative in any way. I think it's kind of a realization that we may not be able to turn 90 acres into the largest entertainment campus in Iowa. Maybe we should, you know ... it does bring vitality in terms of over 700 people here every day. McGraw-Hill, they've made an arrangement to have all of their employees have annual admission to the museum. They've been doing that for three years, ever since we opened. They've had a strong interest in the museum even before they had an interest in coming down here to the site.

Just to back up. What's the price tag on the Phase II? For the museum and aquarium, or the Great River Center, the River Max Theater, the Research Center, it's $33 million. That's our application to Vision Iowa. But we also, at the same time, want to grow our endowment, so we'll go beyond that. Then the Diamond Jo Casino portion is $50 million. There's talk of a parking structure that would be in the range of $12 million to $12.5 million.

And that would be a city project?

That would be a city project. Then the announcement of Durrant and Platinum, a multi-phase project, could grow to $70 million, so it's reaching very sizeable proportions. It probably will equal the impact of American's River Phase I. As I mentioned endowment, to me endowment is fulfilling the promise. More exhibits, new technologies, new visitor experiences are very important, but maintaining the financial future of the Dubuque County Historical Society is vital and it's something I'm deeply, deeply committed to. I guess I would say to anybody who loves what they see here hopefully will help us endow it for many years to come.

How do they go about doing that? Do they... We're going to be launching a campaign to give people an opportunity to contribute. That campaign will have both a capital expenditure or capital campaign, donation, as well as an endowment, donation opportunity. And they'll be giving opportunities...right now, we're exploring, well, what are the things we need? Well, we need veterinary care for the animals. We need conservation of the valuable books and archives and papers we have. We just got, a few months ago, an 1856 map of Dubuque, early map. We need support for on-going education, both on-site, as well as outreach. So all of these present endowment opportunities that this education program is brought to you by the Cooper Endowment (laugh).

A.A. Cooper.

No, no, I'm thinking Brian Cooper.

I didn't bring my checkbook today, otherwise...

I'm just planting the seed. I wouldn't want to take your check today.

We're joking about it, but you and Teri and I know others, you and Teri Goodmann raised a lot of money.

We have. I guess we've shared a vision that people have felt comfortable with and felt they wanted to invest in. The other forum for that is charitable giving. But people have been enormously generous, starting with Bill Woodward and Bob Kehl. And generous with their time. People like Wayne Norman. I'm going back in history now to some of the early founders of our organization, but it's just so satisfying to have a vision that people come together around and then to see that supported. We heard, after this successfully opened, we heard from a few donors that said, "We didn't know whether it would be able to be pulled off. We didn't know whether it could have been done the way as successfully as it was done." They've been very, very pleased in terms of seeing the finished product. I say the finished product, but the product happens every day. That's what we're all about. We're about 200,000 or more people coming in every year and learning and growing and enriching themselves.

As you go forward toward Phase II, you will be doing it without the full-time services of Teri Goodmann, who has been your development director the past 10 or 11 years. What will that mean for the project? Teri is a dynamic leader who wants to continue with the historical society part-time, but also wants to explore other opportunities. She will continue in focused areas where she will be most effective. We will be hiring a new director of development to work with me on the campaign as well. I feel that we will be even stronger as a development team with this addition.

In terms of Phase II and these other plans, do you ever worry that maybe you've bitten off more than you can chew? I don't worry about that but I want to be very prudent in choices. For example, we are about to engage in a fundraising feasibility study to see how much monetary support will be out there for an expansion. But we've already done the economic feasibility report. That was more important to us. What is the prudent level of investment and the prudent level of endowment needed to maintain what you have and consider growth. For example, that led us to the decision to do a River Max instead of an IMAX. It led us to a decision to continue to tell high-profile stories but to always be thinking about the operational costs because you and I won't be here forever to maintain the enthusiasm, Brian; we'll have others... My firm wish is that this organization, not that it grow and grow, but that it just continues, that it'll be here 100 years from now. So securing that land at Portside, that building, the most significant thing, I think, is not just what will happen in the next five years, but the fact that 50 yea rs from now, that will still be there as part of the Mississippi River Museum and Aquarium campus. So we're not in a hurry to fill every space with exhibits or spend as much money as we can. We're very enthused about creating meaningful experiences that delight people, that provide immersive surrounding, the chain survives.

Now, going back to the cooperative venture with the Diamond Jo boat. There was a period where the City of Dubuque really wasn't aware of all these plans.

That's right.

It appeared that the ruffled some feathers among the folks at City Hall. Why did your organization feel that was necessary at that time? Well, the Diamond Jo came to us with a tremendous offer. As I said, the space along the waterfront was key. The value of their gift is being calculated at $11.2 million. An enormous contribution. What they were interested in doing is expanding, but they also wanted to see us expand. Their concept of a vital Port of Dubuque is a museum and aquarium that continues to grow and provide new services or new experiences. So they came to us and had certain confidentiality needs. For one thing, their bonds related to Diamond Jo, this becomes a material event. The fact that the Diamond Jo is going to invest $50 million, that's such a significant investment that that could affect the purchase or sale of bonds so that this had to be filed with the Securities and Exchange Commission. That was one of the reasons for the confidentiality. As a recipient of a large donation, we wanted to respect the wishes of the donor. We're aware that there's a very healthy and vigorous competition between Diamond Jo and Dubuque Ra cing Association and we certainly want to see both of them prosper. Actually, that's good for Dubuque, as other gaming ventures might open in southwest Wisconsin or in Riverside. Dubuque's total package of attraction becomes important. Dubuque needs to have pulling power, not individual whether it's Diamond Jo or DRA, but the Port of Dubuque needs to expand, the museum needs to expand, DRA and Diamond Jo need to expand to their full capacity. DRA has and Diamond Jo had an agreement signed in May of '05 enabling them to do that. So this was an opportunity for them to move forward. It was unfortunate in timing. We wanted to get the information out as quickly as we could. We did not realize that some of the city council members were in Iowa City for a meeting - it might have been the League of Cities meeting - and so some of them were not able to attend a meeting when it was announced. In retrospect, I wish we would have known that they were out of town and could have done it differently.

But you have different balls to juggle, as far as the SEC... Yeah. And also, in announcing any kind of a new expansion, you want to have enough critical mass to make people say, Wow! There was a lot of work in about 10 days. A lot of overnight work by artists, conceptual drawings. There was a lot of planning, a lot of budgeting. The museum had been planning for two years already for what its expansion might be. Interestingly enough, a year before the Diamond Jo came to us, we had already drawn out exhibit plans for how we might use the Portside building should the Diamond Jo ever be willing to donate it to us. And a year before they made this decision, we had asked them would they ever consider donating that building. They kind of chuckled, but maybe we planted a seed. So we hired Frank Zaremba. He used the floor plans and he developed, this was in February '05. He developed a floor plan of how we would create exhibits in the combined Portside, former Welcome Center building. It seemed brand new to a lot of people, but frankly it had been something that had be en drawn up over a year-and-a-half ago.

In looking over the article from your announcement as TH First Citizen Award winner back in '91...

Thank you for that.

You're welcome.. Bill Woodward described you as the rare blend of a dreamer and a doer. You remember that?

Bill was good with words. I don't remember that, no; thanks for reminding me. A dreamer and a doer. I aspire to that. I hope I can be that. What I get really charged up about is envisioning a visitor's experience and working with partners to make that happen, but realizing it's not going to happen without funds, without space. So I'm probably more known maybe for fundraising or whatever, but the fundraising is a means to the end. The end, in what drives me, is that visitor experience. The ability to be part of a process where people say, Wow! I've been touched and moved so many times in my life by reading a good book, going to a good movie, seeing a wonderful museum or having a wonderful experience on the river itself and wanting to share that. That's my greatest passion. So because I'm passionate about that great story, that's when I get passionate about asking others to help tell that story and be part of that story and what can they bring to it. What special talents or knowledge do they have as pa rt of that.

What dreams are out there still?

Gosh. Well, one of the dreams of this new center is to make sure that the stories we tell here in Dubuque go across the country. The Dubuque audience is first and foremost, and we think the best experience is when people come here and experience it. But almost every exhibit we create in the new Great River Center will travel. So we've developed a network of 62 museums on the Great River Road, large and small, so the exhibits will travel there. I'm working with this task force to get some of these exhibits to the larger aquariums in the country, like Monterey and the National Aquarium in Baltimore. To me, I guess that's what's on the horizon is create a first-class museum experience about the rivers of America and make it a place where people come to see the River Max and this Great River Center but then send those exhibits out as traveling versions as well so that people will say, Wow! Then they'll come to Dubuque and see more wow. Then, every morning at 5:30, two pages of my Jim Bridger book. But th at's also on the horizon.

Spare time activities. Apparently, improve the river. Oh, yes. I have a cottage at Frentress Lake and spend a lot of time there. We have a boat. Mainly just use it to watch the river. I don't really ski. I don't fish. I don't hunt. I float, I guess is what I do. I float down the river and I watch and I look and I see eagles. Just be part of the river. And it's also great refuge. It's a great way to get away. I love to read. I'm a great fan of libraries. My Saturday routine is a visit to Carnegie-Stout, the Loras Library, other libraries in the area. I surround myself with books, even if I don't have time to read them. I usually come home with 20 or 30 books and put them by my bedside, just by the TV table, then they're always available. Then I get a notice that they're due and I've only looked at one of them, so I renew the best ones and I take the others back.

When they send you a notice, Jerry, it's not that they're due, it's that they're overdue.

Yes, they're overdue. But now the online renewal is quite nice. And because I go almost once a week to the library, usually they say, Oh, you have something due. Do you want to renew that? So I do. My Bridger book is a great passion, too. And I love traveling in the West. I do love to travel. My travel has taken me to different - it is somewhat job-related. I used to visit every historic house museum I could find. Then I visited every river or transportation museum that was within 100 miles. Then I started visiting Welcome Centers in 1991. Then I started visiting aquariums. Now, I'm visiting theaters. In the past two weeks, I think I've seen four either IMAX or high definition theaters - in Atlanta, Washington, D.C., and Minneapolis. I learn by seeing what others have done and I try to... I tend to be whole hog on things. If we're building a large-format theater, I want to see the best ones in the world and see what we can learn from others.

You pretty much have your dreams in motion, in place. Pretty firmly set into mind. Yeah. Bill Woodward once asked me, What are your plans for this year? I started telling him and he stopped me, in front of the board, and he said, Stop! That's enough. I said, I haven't told you everything. He said, Yes, you have. Do what you can do now and make sure that you accomplish what you intend to accomplish in the next two years and keep these other dreams for later. So, yeah, there's other books I'd like to write. I don't think the museum and aquarium would expand any more beyond what we're currently doing. But we have a platform now from which we can tell exhibits and bring in exhibits from all over the country, send exhibits around the country. They're far from done. I remember when we were doing the River Discovery Center. But the wetland was not part of our inclusion. Somebody suggested it. And then another person suggested it. And because of that encouragement and study and subsequent study on our part, we built it into our plan. I envision that as we talk to the community more at leng th about what the River Max theater will have, what the Great River Center will have, there are ideas out there that people will suggest, so it's going to evolve and it's going to get better and better.