Dan Hammel

TH: Your father was a Flexsteel employee who was involved in his union. Did that lead to your interest in organized labor?

Dan Hammel Age: 61 Occupation: Business manager and financial secretary, International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers Local 704, Dubuque. Family: Son of Esther and the late Clem Hammel. Hometown: Dubuque. Education: Wahlert High School. Attended Loras College. Military service: U.S. Marine Corps Reserves. Professional associations: Dubuque Area Labor-Management Council, Dubuque Building & Construction Trades Council, United Labor Participation Committee, Dubuque Area Labor Harvest, Dubuque Federation of Labor, Iowa State Electrical Workers Council, National Fire Protection Association, Dubuque Area Chamber of Commerce. Community leadership: Greater Dubuque Development Corp., Dubuque Racing Association, Dubuque County Democratic Central Committee, City of Dubuque Electrical Code Board. Hobbies: Golf, Euchre, walking. Formerly fast-pitch softball and bowling.

DH: Not really at all, no. No, I just kind of picked that up on my own from when I got involved with the electrical union. In fact, right before I got into this, I did work at Morrison Brothers for probably six or eight months after I got out of the service and while I was going to school up at Loras. I wasn't even involved. I mean, I joined the union, but I really wasn't involved in all. How I actually got involved in this union, it's kind of ironic, I guess. I completed my apprenticeship program in 1970 and I just happened to be attending a union meeting. I remember sitting at a union meeting and they were taking nominations for recording secretary and everybody declined. Some old gentleman, a brother electrician, was sitting in the back. He says, "Hey - he didn't even know my name - I nominate you." I kind of looked at him. He says, "We gotta get some of these younger guys involved." I said, "OK, I accept." I didn't even know what I was doing. Well, I held that for two terms and then after that, I did run for president. The business manager at the time kind of encouraged me to run for president. So then I was president for 71/2 years. After that, he retired and I took over for him in 1986. So, actually, I've been a union officer since 1970. So, it's quite a while.

TH: Before you started the apprenticeship, were there other careers you were interested in? How did you happen to get into the apprenticeship?
DH: I guess I didn't know if college was for me. Of course, the funding wasn't there, either. I always had aspirations of going back to college, finishing college. I kind of wanted to be an electrical engineer. And the only reason why this electrical thing came to play, I was always interested in toy trains when I was a kid. Electric trains. It didn't hurt so much that most of my family - or I should say on my dad's side - were into the plumbing business, whether contractors or plumbers or whatever. I should have gone into that, I guess. But, no, I had an uncle, my mother's brother, Ray Kluck, who was an electrician. I don't know. It seemed like a good career. He pretty much helped me get in, or talked me into getting into the apprenticeship program. I got into that and I liked it. And like I said, I always had aspirations of finishing college. That's probably one of my biggest regrets, that I didn't finish. But it's been a good career.

TH: I'm interested in the IBEW, especially Local 704 here. How many members do you have?
DH: Currently, about 475.

TH: Are they employees of certain businesses? Are they contractors? Where all do these members work?
DH: OK, we've got about 140 electricians and they're employed by 11 electrical contractors. Then I represent the people at Barnstead International, over here on Kerper. They've got I guess around 200. Then Bodine Electric - I've got about 100 members out there, too. I don't know if those figures add up or not, but about 475 altogether. I could be off a little bit.

TH: What has been the trend for membership at Local 704 over the years?
DH: Over the years? Well, we were chartered actually July 13, 1911, as IBEW 704. Before that, in 1906, we were Local 198 of the Electrical Workers and Telephone Workers. Then the IBEW chartered us July 13, 1911. Over the years, we've grown to this. In 1957, we organized Thermolyne (now Barnstead International). I think it was about in 1957, there was about 16 or 18 at the Thermolyne plant. I believe it was in 1999, we organized Bodine Electric. Members came to me and we organized them.

TH: This number of approximately 475, is that up from 10 years ago? Up from 20 years ago?
DH: Yeah, I think gradually it's gone up period ever since Day 1, really.

TH: To what do you attribute the growth for your particular local?
DH: As far as the electricians, fortunately in the Dubuque area, our contractors are very competitive. We probably do about 85 or 90 percent of the work monetary-wise and that has just kind of steadily grown. With Thermalyne, the big hiring years were in about 1987 and 1988. When I first took office in 1986, we had about 80 to 100 members there. I mean, it was always 100 percent union, but there was about 80 or 100 employees. Then they had a hiring trend and we built up. They're continuing to grow. With Fischer Scientific buying them out and everything, we never know from day-to-day about that over there. Right now, the good news is that they're bringing in work from Indiana, Pennsylvania. They're bringing in work from Chicago. Their Lab Line company in Chicago -actually those two plants are shutting down. That's not so good. But the good news is that they're moving it here. I think the work picture looks very, very good over there. With Bodine Electric, they came to Dubuque in 1991, from Chicago. They've got a plant in Chicago. Then in '99, we had a campaign and won the election and, fortunately, we've just got a real good relationship with the company.

TH: Now, we've talked about Barnstead and Bodine, but you do have about one-third of your members working with 11 different contractors. What are some of the major projects that people in Dubuque are aware of where you have some members working right now?
DH: Right now, down at the city garage, middle school, currently Cuba City High School. The HyVee store down on Locust. The University of Dubuque. We've got quite a bit going. The hotel, the new Hilton Garden Inn. Hopefully, we'll be fortunate enough to be wiring the new Hampton Inn. I think right now, we've been pretty fortunate over the last eight or 10 years. We did have a lull for about six months last year. We had some people out of work - about 20, 25 electricians out of work. But it picked up. Currently, everybody's working. But there again, in a construction industry, you're always up and down.

TH: Nationally, union membership has declined over the years. About 20 percent of wage earners were union members in '83, a little more than 20 years ago. In 2004, it was 121/2 percent. To what do you attribute that significant decline?
DH: I think the biggest decline has to do with the jobs. Probably the most important issue that's facing labor today, and not only unions - non-unions alike - is the of manufacturing jobs we're losing and going out of the country. This bill that Bush just signed, CAFTA - that sure didn't help at all. In fact, not just the IBEW alone. The other unions are feeling the same hit, whether it be the Teamsters, whether it be the UFCW, whether it be whoever, the machinists, the steelworkers. With the IBEW, we used to be over a million strong in the '70s. Currently we're around 750,000. But in the last 10 years, just in the manufacturing sector, we had about 370,000 members in the manufacturing sector, and right now we're down to about 80,000. We used to have in the United States eight or 10 TV plants, for an example. Well, we don't have any left. I believe there is one left in Indiana and I believe that's closing and going to Japan or China or wherever. But that's where I think that we're really taking the bigg est hit as far as the membership declining.

TH: I've heard this expressed just over the years: Some folks in the union movement feel that, frankly, some of today's workers just take for granted what their fathers and grandfathers earned at the bargaining table.
DH: I agree. I agree. I think that there is that sentiment out there. I really do.

TH: Let's go back to CAFTA, the Central American Free Trade Agreement. Several years ago we had NAFTA, for North America. Is this a bad deal for union workers, in your opinion?
DH: I think it's bad for all workers, really. I don't see where NAFTA has helped any. And now with CAFTA, I just can't imagine working out a deal with Central America. It's just going to make it easier for these employers to move their work over there, get it done for $2 a day versus whether it's $5 an hour here or $25 an hour, what's the difference? It's a heck of a lot cheaper to pay somebody $2 a day and ship it back. Yeah, we're really losing jobs. In the construction industry, there again, that's with manufacturing. However, in Dubuque, fortunately, Barnstead's going strong, Bodine Electric out there is going real strong. There are some of these other local plants in Dubuque, things aren't going so well. But there are some of these other plants - Unique Balance, with the machinists over here, for example. I understand they're possibly going to be shutting the doors the first of the year. Look at Flexsteel. Back in the'70s, John Deere out there had 7,000. Well, they're down to 1,000 or maybe 1,200. The packinghouse closed. Fortunately for us, with the two manufacturing plants, things are going good right now. The construction industry in Dubuque, I think, is fairly holding steady, although we have lost some of the crafts. That has to do with merging and then there's not really that union representation here. All the construction industry and building trades are trying to make some efforts to rebuild that again. But as far as the construction industry in the country, I think it's staying pretty much status quo. The union decline is actually coming out of manufacturing, not because of construction.

TH: What do you like about your job?
DH: I think the biggest thing is just working with people. I've always been somewhat of a, I guess, volunteer. I like to get involved. I do enjoy what I'm doing. I really don't have any plans to retire in the near future.

TH: What's the hardest part of what you do?
DH: I guess sometimes telling a member that he's wrong. Or siding with the company, which I have to at times. I mean, the member's not always right. But just trying to explain to him, "Hey, the contractor did follow the contract." People always seem to want to be able to hear you say that you're on their side. But sometimes you just have to - you can't always agree with him. I think that's one of the things. I guess the everyday problems. A lot of time over at Barnstead or out at Bodine, I worry about those jobs, even though I don't work there. I worry about those jobs or layoffs or jobs going someplace else, as much as if not more than the actual people that work in those facilities. I work just as hard, I think sometimes, as our electrical contractors to get work. Sometimes, they're a little picky, a little choosy, as far as what jobs they want to bid on. I don't care what kind of a job it is. Go out there and get that job, you know. That's what puts our members to work. And that's what my job is.

TH: I were to phone a couple of the contractors, or phone over to Bodine, and say, "I'm doing a story on Dan Hammel. Tell me about Dan Hammel." What do you think they'd say?
DH: Well, first of all, I think I've got a pretty good working relationship with all of our contractors and with Barnstead and Bodine. Needless to say, I sure as hell didn't when we first started organizing Bodine's. Yeah, Bodine, I remember when we - I don't think you want to print this - when we had that election and we won that election, 83 to 80. Of course, then the next thing is you've got to try and get a contract. Well, I didn't see it but the word was when the labor board as in there counting the ballots and of course, I was in there as an observer, which I was allowed to be in there, the company attorney was there and of course one of our union reps was there. They were counting the ballots and we had won. Supposedly, Jeff Bodine went out. They had plans for an expansion, supposedly, on the wall in one of the offices there, and he just ripped that thing down. It took us about five or six days and we got that first contract, fortunately. I think over those short last six years, we've developed a very, very good working relationship with the company. In fact, last year, we got an award at the Labor-Management Council awards banquet for working together with our interest-based bargaining.

TH: What is interest-based bargaining?
DH: It's a new concept. I like it. We've done it the last three contracts over at Barnstead. They like it. We did it the last time with Bodine. It's something new over the last 15, 20 years. Not too many people bargain that way. It's different than the old adversarial bargaining, where the company sits on this side of the table and the union sits on that side of the table and, "We'll drop this if you drop that," or, "We'll give you this if you give us this." This is set up through the Federal Mediation and Conciliation Service. The federal mediator comes in and he's the one that monitors or coordinates the whole bargaining session. He's there. Well, first of all we have two days of training on how to bargain this way. We set up ground rules. We set up standards. The ground rules will be... "We start at 8 o'clock. We finish at 5. We take a break at 10:15 in the morning. No suits and ties." Nobody's allowed a tie. It's management. It's union. Management, union around the table.

TH: Alternating around the table.
DH: Right. There's no caucuses. If you've got something to say, you say it at the table. Take each issue, each proposal. They're not called proposals, they're called issues. Take each one individually. You put it up on the flip chart, the mediator will put it up there. "OK, here's the problem. Now how do we correct it?" Everybody's throwing out ideas and then you put all these papers up on the wall. And then with your standards, it's got to be ratifiable. It's got to be financially feasible for the company. There can be a whole bunch of them. Well, you scratch out. And then whatever you end up with, that's what goes into the contract. So it's a whole different way of bargaining. It really seems to work. And then we all go to the bar afterwards. We do. Under normal circumstances, a lot of times, the union and the company go their way and this way and there's pounding the table and crap like that. I mean, that's right in the ground rules. There's no voices raised. There's no calling names, stuff like that . It's a different concept and I really like it. But the federal mediator's there all the time. If either side gets off base or something, he says, "Hey, wait a minute, remember what you agreed to?" I mean, I think it's kind of a win-win for both sides.

TH: Do you still consider Dubuque a union town?
DH: Yes, I do. Not as strong as it used to be, but I don't think there's any town in the country that's as union as they used to be. I do know that a lot of people gloat about the fact - even some of my colleagues even, from Philadelphia, St. Louis, Chicago: "Oh, boy, we're a union town, you know." I went to a meeting over in Chicago not too long ago. The business manager got up at the start of the progress meeting and said, "I want you to go upstairs tonight, and you go up to the 40th floor." They've got a revolving restaurant. "And you look out our beautiful city overnight. And he says, "Every one of those lights is wired by an IBEW electrician." Well, give me a break. Maybe back in the '40s or '50s it was. But I tell you what, they've got the same problems that anybody else has. It's just real competitive. There's a lot of non-union competition for us. The competitiveness in the manufacturing, I don't know if it makes a whole lot of difference if you're union or non-union, but they're competing against other countries. In the United States, we're competing, in the construction industry, we're always competing against non-union.

TH: A few weeks ago, two of the biggest members of the AFL-CIO, the Teamsters and the SEIU withdrew from the AFL-CIO. That's about one-fourth of all the members under the AFL-CIO. What's your assessment of that situation? Because IBEW is still in the AFL-CIO.
DH: I don't want to comment a whole lot about it, but what I think is it's ludicrous. I think that they could have internally sat down - and I know they may have been trying for a while - but sat down and got something worked out rather than letting the media get ahold of it. It's given labor a bad name. I just think with those powerful internationals, I just think they could have taken a little bit more time and got something worked out rather than just saying I'm going to boycott the thing and I'm pulling out.

TH: Maybe they should have done that interest-based bargaining.
DH: That's right. Exactly. No, I was very disappointed when I heard that.

TH: When the day comes that you hang it up, what advice will you give to your successor in this job?
DH: I guess probably the No. 1 thing is you've got to be involved in the community. Well, I don't know if it's No. 1, but you've got to be involved in the community. You've got to be able to create a relationship with the employers that you work with. But the given is, naturally, you've got to represent the members because that's basically who's paying you through their union dues. There's no question about it. But if you're just going to represent the members, you're not going to have a whole lot of workers. You're going to tick the employers off. You've got to have a good relationship with them. I was criticized a little bit when I first got in here for getting on a lot of these boards and commissions or whatever the heck I'm on, but I think it's been a real benefit. But I'm also doing a service to the city of Dubuque. My activities in the United Way or the Greater Dubuque Development Corp. Also, you've got to know what's going on, too. That's part of my job. I can't just sit back there at the desk and wait for the phone to ring. I've go to go out and be visible.